Opinions on Steam

nytegeek said:

Steam is okay I guess. They support a lot of independent game developers. I don't like having to wade through all the bad stuff on Steam to find something decent though.

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Ahhhh but the bad stuff can also be the good stuff for others. Most of the "decent" games are usually pretty well known, as well, and so it's easy enough just to search for that game in particular.

Steam offers an easy way to purchase legal copies of games for people who otherwise would have a hard time obtaining them without falling into pirated products. I heard they also make price adjustments on regions to further combat piracy. Not to mention the fact that it's pretty easy to use, added with plenty of social gaming features and screenshot saving abilities.. I'm a very lazy gamer, so steam is a wonder for me.

I myself actually dislike steam. Digital distribution is taking away our ability to keep companies honest. They can take the software back, or close your account and cost you everything. Its always better when you have a physical copy of the game, that way if they take your account down, you can just reinstall that copy and remove the DRM. I tend to buy from Humble Bundle or from indie devs directly, so I know that I'm going to have proof of my purchase, and usually even another way to download it. Plus, that gives %100 of my purchase to the devs, or at least lets me know exactly how much of my money goes where. I'm a game dev myself, so knowing the level of control that users are giving up, it makes me sick.

bioshacker001 said:

I myself actually dislike steam. Digital distribution is taking away our ability to keep companies honest. They can take the software back, or close your account and cost you everything. Its always better when you have a physical copy of the game, that way if they take your account down, you can just reinstall that copy and remove the DRM. I tend to buy from Humble Bundle or from indie devs directly, so I know that I'm going to have proof of my purchase, and usually even another way to download it. Plus, that gives %100 of my purchase to the devs, or at least lets me know exactly how much of my money goes where. I'm a game dev myself, so knowing the level of control that users are giving up, it makes me sick.

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How many games have been taken down, and lost from consumers after purchase?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Not a lot. Are people seriously so worried and concerned that they're going to lose a 20+ year old game? Seriously? I mean, I like some of the older games too, but it's not the end of the world. Anyway, a multiplayer game's servers would be shut down eventually anyway, physical copy of game, or digital. And this is PC gaming we're talking about. 90% (?) of the time a game gets pulled from Steam, which doesn't happen often whatsoever, the person who already purchased the game will be able to still play it. Even if they didn't, emulation and other methods are available on the PC.

AnonLu said:

How many games have been taken down, and lost from consumers after purchase?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Not a lot. Are people seriously so worried and concerned that they're going to lose a 20+ year old game? Seriously? I mean, I like some of the older games too, but it's not the end of the world. Anyway, a multiplayer game's servers would be shut down eventually anyway, physical copy of game, or digital. And this is PC gaming we're talking about. 90% (?) of the time a game gets pulled from Steam, which doesn't happen often whatsoever, the person who already purchased the game will be able to still play it. Even if they didn't, emulation and other methods are available on the PC.

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It doesn't matter how many have. It matters that it CAN happen. And it's not just about these services removing games as a whole from the service. They can pull them from your library. If Valve felt particularly inclined to, or a staff member was having a bad day, users could find their entire libraries lost, with just a message "Your license has been revoked.". Multiplayer games are even worse. Why buy a game if you know it's useless without internet? It's a waste of money, completely. You're talking as if I am referring to older games, but no. Steam, Origin, Uplay, they're all just DRM methods, and all of them can just take away your game. With a modern game, it doesn't matter if you have a physical copy, because you don't have all of the game data. Modern game install disks have about 40-50% of the game's actual data. If something happens to your account, congrats! $60 cup coaster! Digital Distribution is taking away all security we have in our purchases.

EDIT: Corrected misstatements.

PS: Read the Steam EULA. It backs up my statements.

bioshacker001 said:

It doesn't matter how many have. It matters that it CAN happen. And it's not just about these services removing games as a whole from the service. They can pull them from your library. If Valve felt particularly inclined to, or a staff member was having a bad day, users could find their entire libraries lost, with just a message "Your license has been revoked.". Multiplayer games are even worse. Why buy a game if you know it's useless without internet? It's a waste of money, completely. You're talking as if I am referring to older games, but no. Steam, Origin, Uplay, they're all just DRM methods, and all of them can just take away your game. With a modern game, it doesn't matter if you have a physical copy, because you don't have all of the game data. Modern game install disks have about 40-50% of the game's actual data. If something happens to your account, congrats! $60 cup coaster! Digital Distribution is taking away all security we have in our purchases.

EDIT: Corrected misstatements.

PS: Read the Steam EULA. It backs up my statements.

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I apologize, but you are being completely and utterly ridiculous. First off, no one would ever lose "entire libraries" of games. It's simply impossible. Second, a "staff member" can't just revoke all of your games if they were having a "bad day". It's much more complicated than that. Third, are you seriously saying that multiplayer games are worthless? You can't possibly be serious right now, can you? In case you haven't noticed, many people enjoy multiplayer games. How would it be a complete waste of money, if you've already had potentially years, upon years, of fun and entertainment from that game? Explain this to me, because I'm lost. Also, who says people are buying games for $60? When was the last time you bought a game for $60? I have never bought a game for $60 in my life.

AnonLu said:

I apologize, but you are being completely and utterly ridiculous. First off, no one would ever lose "entire libraries" of games. It's simply impossible. Second, a "staff member" can't just revoke all of your games if they were having a "bad day". It's much more complicated than that. Third, are you seriously saying that multiplayer games are worthless? You can't possibly be serious right now, can you? In case you haven't noticed, many people enjoy multiplayer games. How would it be a complete waste of money, if you've already had potentially years, upon years, of fun and entertainment from that game? Explain this to me, because I'm lost. Also, who says people are buying games for $60? When was the last time you bought a game for $60? I have never bought a game for $60 in my life.

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1: "Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers", Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement. This means that Valve may close your account at their sole discretion. Particularly, the "Valve believes" portion: maybe they feel you've played it for too many hours? It's up to them to decide what that entails. Additionally, "You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so." Meaning they are not required to tell you that they've done so, or plan to do so. There are also plenty of stories of them just plain refusing to tell people WHY their accounts were removed.. You lose your account, you lose access to everything associated with it. And since steam keys are single-activation, that means you can't just associate a new one.
2: Sure, said staff member can get in a LOT of trouble. But yes, they can do that. And it's extremely difficult to recover from, given their poor customer service. Not that they're required to help you with it (See section 4 of the subscriber agreement, stated above.)
3: Yes, I am stating that multiplayer-only games are, in my opinion, a complete and utter waste of money. It's not worth it to spend money on a game that will eventually be rendered completely useless, with no offline recourse. It's why "The Division", "Destiny", and similar games are all pointless. You're spending money on something ethereal. Average shutdown for those games is 4-7 years. That's not a lot of time for a software product to be usable.
4: Fallout 4 (And NV, I believe), CoD Black Ops, CoD Black Ops 2, No Man's Sky, Civilizations 4-6 and Beyond Earth (Not counting the DLC), and pretty much every other AAA game, (initial release price). Sure, you haven't done so. Neither have I, because I wait for sales. Plenty of other gamers, however, spend time in line on launch day to spend a lot of money for new titles.

EDIT: Typo and Grammatical corrections

EDIT 2: If my earlier points weren't enough proof, here's their little nifty disclaimer at the end, stating that they don't guarantee that you'll always have access to your account, access to the content in it, or be able to USE the content in it, even if you DO have access to it. It's a standard disclaimer, and it makes sense, but it's another point that takes away a consumers rights: you paid for a game, you should get to play it:
"NEITHER VALVE, VALVE EU NOR THEIR AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH."

bioshacker001 said:

1: "Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers", Section 4 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement. This means that Valve may close your account at their sole discretion. Particularly, the "Valve believes" portion: maybe they feel you've played it for too many hours? It's up to them to decide what that entails. Additionally, "You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so." Meaning they are not required to tell you that they've done so, or plan to do so. There are also plenty of stories of them just plain refusing to tell people WHY their accounts were removed.. You lose your account, you lose access to everything associated with it. And since steam keys are single-activation, that means you can't just associate a new one.
2: Sure, said staff member can get in a LOT of trouble. But yes, they can do that. And it's extremely difficult to recover from, given their poor customer service. Not that they're required to help you with it (See section 4 of the subscriber agreement, stated above.)
3: Yes, I am stating that multiplayer-only games are, in my opinion, a complete and utter waste of money. It's not worth it to spend money on a game that will eventually be rendered completely useless, with no offline recourse. It's why "The Division", "Destiny", and similar games are all pointless. You're spending money on something ethereal. Average shutdown for those games is 4-7 years. That's not a lot of time for a software product to be usable.
4: Fallout 4 (And NV, I believe), CoD Black Ops, CoD Black Ops 2, No Man's Sky, Civilizations 4-6 and Beyond Earth (Not counting the DLC), and pretty much every other AAA game, (initial release price). Sure, you haven't done so. Neither have I, because I wait for sales. Plenty of other gamers, however, spend time in line on launch day to spend a lot of money for new titles.

EDIT: Typo and Grammatical corrections


EDIT 2: If my earlier points weren't enough proof, here's their little nifty disclaimer at the end, stating that they don't guarantee that you'll always have access to your account, access to the content in it, or be able to USE the content in it, even if you DO have access to it. It's a standard disclaimer, and it makes sense, but it's another point that takes away a consumers rights: you paid for a game, you should get to play it:
"NEITHER VALVE, VALVE EU NOR THEIR AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH."

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1: Are you doing anything that is illegal, or would provoke Valve to take away your game? No? Then have no fear. I mean, just think about it. What gain would Valve have for simply taking away your game, that you payed for. What? Bad publicity? A loss in profit, especially if the game has DLC or microtransactions. There is no gain for them. The only reason Valve would take down a game, is if the developers or a publisher ask for it to be. Which, again, why would they do that? Less profit for them? Doesn't make sense, unless there was a copyright claim.

2. I'm not sure just any staff member of Valve, can just go ahead and delete a game from your account. I don't have any evidence to back this up, but I'm nearly 100% sure, that in the event of this extremely unlikely event, you would end up getting your game back. Not just anyone can join Valve, can get into a position to simply delete games from accounts. This point doesn't make sense.

3. Listen, mate, it's fine to not like or play multiplayer games, but to render then useless and a waste of money for others, I mean, come on. This is my driving point, and I'm going to put it in caps, so hopefully it gets across. IF YOU PLAY A GAME FOR, LET'S SAY, 6 YEARS, THEN HOW WOULD THAT GAME BE A WASTE OF MONEY? IF YOU GET, POTENTIALLY, 6 YEARS OF ENJOYMENT AND FUN, OUT OF A GAME, THEN HOW WOULD IT BE WORTHLESS AND A WASTE OF MONEY?

4. Fair point, but you can't really imply that most people, especially PC gamers, buy their games for $60.

All I'm saying, is that the event of a game, or multiple games, on your account being completely taken away from you, is extremely unlikely. Nothing to worry about.

AnonLu said:

1: Are you doing anything that is illegal, or would provoke Valve to take away your game? No? Then have no fear. I mean, just think about it. What gain would Valve have for simply taking away your game, that you payed for. What? Bad publicity? A loss in profit, especially if the game has DLC or microtransactions. There is no gain for them. The only reason Valve would take down a game, is if the developers or a publisher ask for it to be. Which, again, why would they do that? Less profit for them? Doesn't make sense, unless there was a copyright claim.

2. I'm not sure just any staff member of Valve, can just go ahead and delete a game from your account. I don't have any evidence to back this up, but I'm nearly 100% sure, that in the event of this extremely unlikely event, you would end up getting your game back. Not just anyone can join Valve, can get into a position to simply delete games from accounts. This point doesn't make sense.

3. Listen, mate, it's fine to not like or play multiplayer games, but to render then useless and a waste of money for others, I mean, come on. This is my driving point, and I'm going to put it in caps, so hopefully it gets across. IF YOU PLAY A GAME FOR, LET'S SAY, 6 YEARS, THEN HOW WOULD THAT GAME BE A WASTE OF MONEY? IF YOU GET, POTENTIALLY, 6 YEARS OF ENJOYMENT AND FUN, OUT OF A GAME, THEN HOW WOULD IT BE WORTHLESS AND A WASTE OF MONEY?

4. Fair point, but you can't really imply that most people, especially PC gamers, buy their games for $60.

All I'm saying, is that the event of a game, or multiple games, on your account being completely taken away from you, is extremely unlikely. Nothing to worry about.

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My concerns were never that these things are likely. I know they're unlikely. Though there are cases of these things happening, they're extremely rare. Getting back to my initial point, though: These are issues that aren't present when Digital Distribution isn't a factor. If you buy a physical disc, that can't be taken back. They don't have to provide any refund if they remove items from your account, and they don't, so there's no profit loss. These are things that, if these platforms weren't a factor, wouldn't be necessary to worry about.
And about point 3: Because after those 6 years, you have an artificially-enforced EOL. You paid for software so you could use it, and at that point, the publisher is removing your ability to do so. Modern games don't include a LAN play feature, which means they have no multiplayer functions after that point. Some modern games have Always-online singleplayer, even. The fact that the software is FORCED to not work artificially, makes it a waste. It's akin to buying a car and knowing that the publisher will remove your starter, ignition, and differentials in 6 years.

EDIT: Changed car metaphor, as them taking your timing belt would be no big deal, as those are simple to replace, and usually fairly cheap

bioshacker001 said:

My concerns were never that these things are likely. I know they're unlikely. Though there are cases of these things happening, they're extremely rare. Getting back to my initial point, though: These are issues that aren't present when Digital Distribution isn't a factor. If you buy a physical disc, that can't be taken back. They don't have to provide any refund if they remove items from your account, and they don't, so there's no profit loss. These are things that, if these platforms weren't a factor, wouldn't be necessary to worry about.
And about point 3: Because after those 6 years, you have an artificially-enforced EOL. You paid for software so you could use it, and at that point, the publisher is removing your ability to do so. Modern games don't include a LAN play feature, which means they have no multiplayer functions after that point. Some modern games have Always-online singleplayer, even. The fact that the software is FORCED to not work artificially, makes it a waste. It's akin to buying a car and knowing that the publisher will remove your starter, ignition, and differentials in 6 years.

EDIT: Changed car metaphor, as them taking your timing belt would be no big deal, as those are simple to replace, and usually fairly cheap

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I understand your concerns. I used to have these same concerns as well. But then I realized that, as much as I like replaying games, and I like older games, I'm not going to be replaying the same game more than maybe twice. I'm okay with owning a game for, let's say, eight years, because then new games have come out, and I have other games to play. The fact of the matter is, single player games, don't get taken down. There are 15 year old games on sale on Steam right now, and even older games elsewhere. Not to mention, even with physical games, if it's a game that requires an online connection, they could shut down the game anyway.

Thanks for having a civilized discussion on this! Unlike, some other people around the internet!

AnonLu said:

I understand your concerns. I used to have these same concerns as well. But then I realized that, as much as I like replaying games, and I like older games, I'm not going to be replaying the same game more than maybe twice. I'm okay with owning a game for, let's say, eight years, because then new games have come out, and I have other games to play. The fact of the matter is, single player games, don't get taken down. There are 15 year old games on sale on Steam right now, and even older games elsewhere. Not to mention, even with physical games, if it's a game that requires an online connection, they could shut down the game anyway.

Thanks for having a civilized discussion on this! Unlike, some other people around the internet!

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I feel like these platforms are what prompted Online-only games, to be honest. I'm a bit biased against those for an additional reason: My internet is terrible. I have to precache everything because of that. I feel obligated to say that this was not a factor in my prior arguments, as most people who play online multiplayer likely don't have those issues.
Not a problem! The alternative is just everyone being angry and yelling at each other, which nobody is happy about, I think.

Steam has grown more than I would expect from a page dedicated to essentially sell games. Its platform is pretty solid without a doubt, and you can even choose to be offline and play your games without any hassle.

I love Steam because you can get some older, hard-to-find games. Plus, unlike DosBox (which is good in and of itself), you don't have to put the games in a certain folder, set up DosBox to play them, and all that hassle. They come ready to play, and Steam is really good about tech support. For people like me who aren't really savvy with computers, it's a great way to play some of the older stuff. Their prices are also really good. If you know what you're looking for, Steam is a great choice.

I like it, lets me access my games easier c;

Steam is great. I can get a lot of games without having to go to a store,

Steam is an amazing platform. Not perfect but still much better than let's say Uplay. Plenty of free games, giveaway groups for those who can't afford some games and plenty of sales for those who want to try new games but don't feel like paying the full price.
Steam support is indeed a bit sketchy, but i personally never had any issues with them.

nytegeek said:

Steam is okay I guess. They support a lot of independent game developers. I don't like having to wade through all the bad stuff on Steam to find something decent though.

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You seem to have an unbiased view of Steam what was the best and worst games you played on there? I'm new to the whole concept of Steam.

Mattmattics said:

You seem to have an unbiased view of Steam what was the best and worst games you played on there? I'm new to the whole concept of Steam.

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I haven't play a LOT of a games on Steam as that requires a LOT of time and money, but there's something on there for anyone on Steam. You'll find really great diverse single-player games with amazing stories, small MMOs with only a few faithful players, and gigantic local multiplayer games you can drink and play with your friends if you have a controller.

My opinion: Steam is amazing. I play H1Z1: King of the Kill consistently on Steam and its an awesome way for developers to market their game. Plus, the Steam deals are SUPER cheap. You can pick up a full game for a fiver sometimes.

Steam is a pretty good platform and I like it. It's easy to use and it's very safe. I also like that I have all my games at the same place. And I love how they implemented steam in-game.

Steam is great. Though it does support the bad side of games (gambling) with their community market and micro-transaction side where they make lots of money and people waste a lot, Steam is great. Why? As Steam does support Indie games, giving small game developers a chance of getting some sales on their games. Another reason is the wide community. Yes, there are those toxic gamers and those ones which you hate but it adds a huge player base to some games which are also available on their own client. i.e. the new Black Desert Online which may be also played off its own website. Another positive of Steam is how you can just add money to your account, leave it there and buy games, in-game items, this contrasts to independent games where you can only buy stuff from the game and has a very small market. That is why Steam is a great platform compared to independent clients and other clients like battle.net or Origin.